pseudohistorian ([info]pseudohistorian) wrote,
@ 2008-02-06 02:46:00
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Current mood: curious
Entry tags:copyright

I Don't Care, I'm Still Free
While most people, especially in the States, have been wrapped up with Super Tuesday (I Grok Barack, if you're curious), I noticed something else happening online...but first, I should probably provide a bit of background.

After the release of Serenity, Pocket Books had a contract to publish original tie-in novels based on the franchise. (They had already published the novelisation of the film.) A bunch of established authors eagerly submitted outlines, but they all required approval by Joss Whedon, which wasn't forthcoming, and Pocket eventually cancelled the contract as a result.

Despite this, Steven Brust ([info]skzbrust) went ahead and wrote his novel anyway, and (after some excerpt readings at conventions) he has now posted the entire novel, My Own Kind of Freedom, online.

I'm probably not going to read this novel, to be honest, but the legal questions surrounding its posting are very interesting to me--especially in light of what I last wrote about here, and the tension I sense between fan fiction and media tie-in fiction--because Brust released the novel under a Creative Commons licence. The thing is...well, he doesn't own the rights to either Firefly or Serenity.

Does Brust have the legal right to dictate the licencing terms of this work, given that he doesn't own the overarching intellectual property? And if not, does his licence really mean anything?


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[info]amysisson
2008-02-06 01:51 pm UTC (link)
I wondered the same thing. Maybe the Creative Commons license in this case is saying "Yo! You don't have the right to make money off this.... either." Which is true, whether or not it's appropriate for Brust to be the one saying it.

I also wonder if Brust's intention here is to show Joss Whedon that "hey! there is a market for Firefly fiction. Just look at all the buzz my fanfic novel is getting! Think what officially licensed fiction could do!"

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[info]boogieshoes
2008-02-06 03:16 pm UTC (link)
except that Joss regularly interacts with fans, probably reads fanfiction, and certainly views fanvids. he knows darn well that officially licensed books will probably have an (initial) audience.

more likely the CCL is Brust saying in official language what various areas of fandom say frequently: that people are free to use his characters/ settings/ etc in their own fanworks provided he's acknowledged as part-inspiration. the idea of CCL'ing fanfic and especially 'Open AUs' (defined here as a alternate setting come up with by one fan, but open to all to play in, like MOG's MAG7:ATF AU (link to 'ATF BIBLE': http://tidiap.tripod.com/begin.html ) is not new. it's not common in all areas, but Mag7 and Star Wars fic runs heavily to Open AU-verse fanworks.

Brust wouldn't have to worry about the $$ issue vis-a-vis fanworks and other fans, because fandom is a gift economy: making money from fanworks will get you censured and kick/banned from fan communities. not making money is such an assumed part of the package in fandom that non-fen bringing up the money angle is always greeted with consternation: it's a sure sign that non-fen just don't get it .

my $0.02USD

-bs

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[info]pseudohistorian
2008-02-07 09:31 am UTC (link)
First off, I realise that there are some older comments of yours I still haven't replied to...they require a more involved response on my part (yes, even more involved than this one ;)), and I'm afraid I haven't had the chance to get to that yet.

I can't speak for fanvids, but Whedon has been frequently quoted as saying that he doesn't read the finished Buffy novels, and only has a hand in approving their outlines. There are other cases, of course, where he's more involved (Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Season Eight and Angel: After The Fall being two recent examples) and thus considers the results to be canonical, but if he's not reading the other licenced fiction, I very much doubt he's reading fan fiction.

Either way, releasing fanfic under a CCL is a lot like using Campbell as a defence against copyright infringement--it implies that Brust could've released this under a commercial licence, but simply chose not to do so. The legal problems with trying to separate the two kinds of uses are what I've been thinking a lot about lately...

Putting aside those larger questions for the moment, though, it's still a bit disingenuous to bring up the "gift economy" in this context--Brust wrote this novel because he intended to sell it to the licence holder, for publication in the regular market economy, and he's now publishing it as fanfic because he has no other option. It's unlikely he would've written the novel if he knew in advance that this would be the outcome.

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[info]boogieshoes
2008-02-07 02:38 pm UTC (link)
i didn't realize he had been trying to sell it to the license holder, sorry. i don't really keep up with buffy fandom and Joss-dom in general. i was responding to this from a fannish PoV, and there's a lot of squee over the whole thing in my little corner of the internet. i know that he's seeing fanvids - recently, someone posted, iirc, a firefly fanvid, and literally, he was the first person to respond to the post. must have completely boggled the OP, heh. fanfiction as such... i know he's aware of it and definately pandered to the subtextual fun for buffy fans. i'm supposing he reads the occassional piece sent his way, but no real proof there.

wrt Brust's motivations for writing the novel, with no other input, i'd have to agree. i do know that plenty of professional writers continue to write fanfic on the side simply because it's still fun for them, and i'm sure many of them write novel-length pieces. but i've never been aware of Brust and his position in or wrt fandom, so...

can you explain for me the remark about using Campbell for defense against CP infringement? i'm afraid i'm not familiar with caselaw - well, anywhere, really. i'm a fluid dynamicist in professional life, which is quite a ways away from all of this unless i'm hit with links.

-bs

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[info]pseudohistorian
2008-02-11 01:38 pm UTC (link)
i didn't realize he had been trying to sell it to the license holder, sorry.

Er, okay, but that's why I provided the background information in the original post--to make it clear that this novel was intended to be part of a licenced media tie-in line.

As for whether Joss Whedon looks at any fan-created material related to his franchises, I will take him at his word that he doesn't unless I see a specific quote from him stating otherwise.

can you explain for me the remark about using Campbell for defense against CP infringement? i'm afraid i'm not familiar with caselaw - well, anywhere, really.

I was referring back to the OTW's legal stance on fan fiction, which relies on a case defending a commercial use as a fair one. Similarly, using a CCL of your own creation on a fanfic novel implies that commercialisation is an option, even if that's not the intent.

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[info]pseudohistorian
2008-02-07 08:38 am UTC (link)
Maybe the Creative Commons license in this case is saying "Yo! You don't have the right to make money off this.... either." Which is true, whether or not it's appropriate for Brust to be the one saying it.

Perhaps, but choosing the licence suggests a level of control that he doesn't really have (from my perspective), in a way that a simple disclaimer wouldn't. (He also credits Firefly despite the fact that technically, this would've been published as a Serenity novel, and thus fails to mention Universal at all.)

I can't help but feel that this could end very badly for him...after all, if either of us suddenly decided to post a Trek novel online, with our own Creative Commons licence, I'm sure Paramount would be laying the smackdown rather quickly--and Pocket wouldn't be too interested in working with us again.

I also wonder if Brust's intention here is to show Joss Whedon that "hey! there is a market for Firefly fiction. Just look at all the buzz my fanfic novel is getting! Think what officially licensed fiction could do!"

From what I've gathered, it doesn't seem as if Whedon had much doubt about the potential market for officially licenced Firefly fiction--he just wanted a lot of creative control over it, more so than he had on the Buffy or Angel novel lines, which meant that he stayed quiet about these proposals until the (still hypothetical) novels became an impossibility.

(Just ask [info]kradical about it sometime...you might say he's a little bitter about what went down with this licence.)

I mean, I'd be shocked if Joss Whedon were looking at the DVD sales and all the continued Browncoat fervour, but didn't realise he could profit from a series of novels, even at this juncture...

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[info]amysisson
2008-02-07 01:59 pm UTC (link)
All valid points, to be sure.

I guess with Whedon, I want to be in his head and listen to his thoughts on this. I imagine (but don't know) that he could have had all the creative control he wanted on the fiction line. J. Michael Straczynski managed it with Babylon 5, to the point where he officially stated that the fiction line was canon (ahhhhhh! the dreaded c-word!). So I can't imagine that's why Whedon didn't act on the proposals. The only explanations I can think of are 1) he lost interest, or 2) he didn't like any of the proposals but was a wuss about just telling people, so he stayed quiet.

I've heard a little about what [info]kradical has said, but if I recall correctly, it was mostly along the lines of "we never heard, we never heard, then it was too late", so I don't know if the authors invited to pitch ever heard more than that, or they're making their own guesses at this point.

Regardless, it's a shame.

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[info]pseudohistorian
2008-02-07 08:47 pm UTC (link)
I guess with Whedon, I want to be in his head and listen to his thoughts on this.

I know exactly what you mean--he's never given a specific answer (to my knowledge) about these proposals per se, so a lot of my thoughts are based on general comments he's made about tie-ins along with some inference. They are definitely my own guesses.

I imagine (but don't know) that he could have had all the creative control he wanted on the fiction line. J. Michael Straczynski managed it with Babylon 5, to the point where he officially stated that the fiction line was canon (ahhhhhh! the dreaded c-word!).

Don't worry, I'm not as scared of the C-word as some people. ;) I actually enjoy thinking about canonicity and continuity, oddly enough...

In terms of that kind of creative control, I don't think he's against controlling the plot--I mean, that's essentially what he's doing with the Buffy and Angel comics now. I'm not sure how interested he'd be in a series of Firefly novels all "Based on an Original Outline by Joss Whedon" in the JMS style, though.

So I can't imagine that's why Whedon didn't act on the proposals. The only explanations I can think of are 1) he lost interest, or 2) he didn't like any of the proposals but was a wuss about just telling people, so he stayed quiet.

When asked about ancillary Firefly material by other people, it seems he was less concerned with canonical events (i.e. preserving the timeline, free of contradictions) than he was about thematic integrity. IIRC, his only concrete example was of a theoretical novel in which Mal suddenly took a pro-government stance in some situation.

As you say, though, Whedon really could've had control over this sort of thing, too, which is also part of what [info]kradical's talked about--his position enabled him to look over manuscripts and prevent that sort of thing from happening...

...which makes me think that he might not want to devote that kind of time and energy to a franchise that he loves, but sees as not successful enough in the general public sphere. (I mean, look how long his next Serenity comics are taking.) Even with the Buffy novels, he's said he doesn't read them because he'd want to go in and change this and that, until eventually he's just writing them himself. It seems to me that he anticipates being that interested, and is "a wuss about just telling people" that he wants to save himself the trouble.

Regardless, it's a shame.

Agreed...

I think the potential authors "get" the 'verse more than he realises, but his paranoia (?) is getting in the way of a more Expanded Universe. :/

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[info]lampbane
2008-02-06 03:44 pm UTC (link)
Well, since he doesn't own the property anyway, he technically shouldn't be distributing it at all, much less dictate the licensing terms of the work. However, it is basically glorified fanfic, and I assume that the attitude of Joss/FOX has been rather laissez-faire toward *most* fan works, so I don't think there would be a problem... unless they don't consider it a fan work because he's a professional. That's probably where having the CC license helps, since the license makes it clear he's not looking to make money off the work.

But I'm not an IP lawyer. Based on what you gave about the background of this project, what I'm really thinking is that Joss really needs to create some sort of licensing department that can approve projects like original novels without having to consult him on every little thing but still produce high-quality product consistent with the show.

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[info]pseudohistorian
2008-02-07 10:08 am UTC (link)
However, it is basically glorified fanfic, and I assume that the attitude of Joss/FOX has been rather laissez-faire toward *most* fan works, so I don't think there would be a problem...

To the extent that Joss Whedon has brought up fanfic at all, his responses can basically be summed up as, "I'm all for it. I read none of it." As I also noted above in a different reply, he doesn't even read the licenced fiction for his properties unless he's writing or plotting them himself.

unless they don't consider it a fan work because he's a professional. That's probably where having the CC license helps, since the license makes it clear he's not looking to make money off the work.

You have a point there. I thought it took a lot of chutzpah for Brust to act as though he had a choice in the licencing, but he may have thought to himself that something more formal-looking than a disclaimer would help him out if/when Fox and/or Universal decide they have a problem with him putting this online.

Based on what you gave about the background of this project, what I'm really thinking is that Joss really needs to create some sort of licensing department that can approve projects like original novels without having to consult him on every little thing but still produce high-quality product consistent with the show.

From what I've read, he does have a licencing department which handles approvals--writers of the Buffy novels often mention his "office," as opposed to Joss Whedon personally, and it seems as though these Serenity novel outlines were meant to go through the same process. The difference is that in this case, Whedon did want to be consulted "on every little thing," letting these proposals fall by the wayside rather than allow any of them to be approved--and risk some aspect of them going against the (apparently) much more specific vision he has for this 'verse as opposed to the Buffyverse.

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WARNING: Nerdgasm
[info]lampbane
2008-02-07 04:36 pm UTC (link)
The difference is that in this case, Whedon did want to be consulted "on every little thing," letting these proposals fall by the wayside rather than allow any of them to be approved--and risk some aspect of them going against the (apparently) much more specific vision he has for this 'verse as opposed to the Buffyverse.

You know, I look at (and read) a lot of licensed novels and I think "what a waste." Not that I think they're bad- far from it- but that in the overall scheme of authenticity/canon, they don't mean anything. When you have novels based on an ongoing franchise (like oh, I don't know, Star Trek), there's always the chance that what's written will eventually be contradicted, and thus cancelled out, by something that happens in the show/movies/comics/game. So while it might be a fun little story, it has very little impact outside of the joy that it brought to the reader, and the dollars it bought to the publisher. In a practical sense that's just fine, but as a Big Nerdy Fan, it bothers me. We're used to thinking about the constructed universes, of the continuity that ties them together.

So I can understand if Joss wants to have obsessive control over Firefly/Serenity, because maybe he doesn't want to have those loose ends hanging around.

However.

Trying to create licensed fiction that fits in with continuity is of course, possible, though it's generally not done because it's a pain in the ass. Everything has to be coordinated and catalogued to create a universe that's consistent across all the different media. I would think it was easy to do with Babylon 5 only because a) the show ended and b) JMS and Peter David work on a lot of the books anyway. Maybe Joss doesn't have the time to be vetting all of these things, or maybe he doesn't want to risk losing control, or risk squandering perfectly good story ideas he might have in the future. I don't know, but for whatever reason, he's not interested in expanding the continuity outside of the TV and movies he has or might have planned.

But from a business perspective, canon licensed fiction is not a bad idea. Four words: Star Wars Expanded Universe. George Lucas had a very specific vision in mind for what he wanted to do with his franchise, the writers were told "hands off" to certain things, and then given the opportunity to build continuity beyond what Lucas had already laid down. And it's worked pretty damn well. We've got a universe that spans thousands of years, dozens of characters, and is truly multimedia - movies, TV shows, books, comics, and video games. Though the EU is separated from the movies on the website and elsewhere, it's still treated as its own canon with due dignity and respect. It's very rare that fans get the sense that something doesn't matter, the franchise can be considered "active" even though it's based on a series of movies no longer being made, it's making them lots and lots of money, and yes, some of it is rather good (and maybe even better than the movies). Everyone wins!

I feel like Joss is really missing out on an opportunity at some prime brand-building here. Sure, maybe it's his baby and he wants to love and nurture it forever and forever, but there's merit in letting it spread its wings.

We now return to my regularly scheduled work day.

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[info]ninthscompanion
2008-02-07 01:29 am UTC (link)
i know i've sworn to keep my big ol' trap shut about this stuff, but y'know what? no. if he does, he shouldn't. joss's creations are his own, and he has the right to say stay the (insert bad word that would mean i was way too emotionally invested here) away from my characters and come up with your own goddamn piece of art. i mean, are these people for real? what on earth is wrong with appreciating what whedon has done, letting it inspire you, and then saying to yourself, hey, y'know what, i wouldn't mind being a big ol' creative genius myself, not, O HAI, IM IN UR UNIVERZ, USIN UR CHARAKTURZ 4 MI BENIFITZ, K?

break me off a piece of that kit kat bar already.

um...
ilu :)

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[info]pseudohistorian
2008-02-12 09:08 pm UTC (link)
Umm...wow.

Well, we certainly have the broad range of reactions on the matter replying to this entry. ;) I actually think that's a good thing.

Besides the ongoing stigma against media tie-in fiction (with your opinion on one end and, I don't know, The International Association of Media Tie-In Writers on the other), which we've talked about, I think there are a few things which differentiate this from your "typical" fanfic situation.

First off, Steven Brust is already well-known for his original creations. Admittedly, I haven't read any of his work, but he has a following of his own, and this was his first attempt at a tie-in novel.

Secondly, what complicates this particular situation is that (whether or not Brust's novel would've been picked up) there were supposed to be Serenity novels, and this at least might have been one of them. You're right, though, that Joss Whedon had the right not to approve any of the novel proposals and keep such a novel line from happening.

Finally, for what it's worth, the licence here was noncommercial, so what Brust was trying to say was that no one could make money off this novel (including himself, as [info]amysisson mentioned).

On that note...er, ILU, too. :)

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